"Kids and Smartphones-Technology at the Right Time" with Troomi CEO Bill Brady

Introducing technology and smartphones to kids and teens can be a very nuanced endeavor. Bill Brady joins us today to talk about how his company Troomi Wireless, is giving families the tools for them to properly introduce technology at the rate that's best for individual kids: allowing parents to train them how to use the technology that will be a major part of their lives. Bill also shares how his experiences as a father helped shape the company's ethos in building the Troomi operating system. 

Bill is a likeable guy. He was the student body President of BYU. He is a very thoughtful friend and is likely one of the nicest people you'll ever meet. He is Canadian after all! 

Make it a Great Week! 
Kirk Chugg & Cory Moore

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Transcript

Cory Moore 
Ladies and gentlemen welcome to the Gentlemen Project Podcast today. We have the man, the myth, the legend, Mr. Bill Brady.

Bill Brady
Never had an introduction quite like that sounded really

Kirk Chugg 
good. I think we'll record that and give it to you. And you can use it on all of your social media like that. Good job, Cory. I like that. Welcome to the gentleman project podcast, everyone. I'm Kirk Chugg. And

Cory Moore 
I'm Cory Moore.

Kirk Chugg 
Bill Brady is with us today. Obviously, Bill has been a friend of both Korea and mine for probably a decade or so since we met each other networking. Back in the day, as we cross paths, Bill was always somebody that just like, we had experiences together and some, some specific stories that I just remember, liking bill as a guy and as a person as a friend, we've been able to stay somewhat in touch over the last 10 years. And he has done quite a number of amazing things in the last 10 years. And we'll let him talk about a couple of those things. But he's one of the owners and CEO of true me wireless. And as many of us have kids in that age group of needing or wanting some technology in their life, Bill's gonna bring a really interesting, great perspective to healthy technology habits and why he founded true me wireless. And it's just gonna be an amazing conversation today. So welcome to the podcast, Bill. Hey, thank

Bill Brady
you so much, really excited to be with both of you.

Kirk Chugg 
So we had Bill scheduled to be on the podcast, though a little while ago when he got really sick with COVID and lost his voice entirely.

Bill Brady 
It's almost back. Almost back. So

Kirk Chugg 
we're glad that you're with us, finally, and that your voice sounds amazing. So

Bill Brady
not quite like Corys Sam Elliott might,

Kirk Chugg 
you know, put a little bit of competition up against Cory's voice on a podcast that's

Cory Moore 
not even close. He would just he would murder me. I always tell Kurt. Hey, can you make me sound like Sam Elliott? That would be awesome. He never has.

Kirk Chugg 
I don't know, I think it sounds pretty good.

Cory Moore 
So Bill, maybe start talking to us about since you're in this technology, space, and space where you're providing technology to kids in a safe way. Tell us that story and tell us what you've learned and what you know, what you've taught your kids through this process?

Bill Brady
Yeah, great question.

Kirk Chugg 
Very open-ended long answer question.

Bill Brady
The genesis of this whole thing kind of comes from a couple of directions. On one hand, my whole career in my career has been in marketing and communication. And even going back to, you know, 2000, the year 2000, or even 1998 1999, when I was a student at BYU. In studying communication, I was concerned about the effect of technology on how we communicate as humans and picture that guy. So like, this is before smartphones, this is before social media. Even going back that long, I felt like this dehumanizing effect of technology. And I was always concerned about it. That was dramatically amplified as I became a dad. And as my wife and I were deciding how are we going to do technology in our home? Are we going to do video games? Are we not going to do video games, our kids gonna have phones, or they're not going to have phones, etc, etc. Just because of some of that background, I've we've always been a little bit cautious in contemplative, not, you know, not ever saying that technology is evil. And there's no place for it. Certainly not to that extreme, but hey, let's just be deliberate, perhaps is the right word. You know, a few years ago, back in 2018, I had the opportunity to get into this space of kids and technology and look for a better way to introduce technology to kids. I've learned over these years that these questions about kids and technology and when and what in how much? These are questions that every family in America is dealing with because they've heard other people's stories, and they've said, well, we better be careful in really looking at this. And frankly, in some very tragic cases, because families have experienced some pretty tough problems. Since I've been in this space. Everyone wants to tell me their stories, in some of them literally bring tears to my eyes. When I hear what kids have gone through and what families have gone through as a result because of some pretty rough situations kids have gotten into now. Those are the outlier stories. Not every family is going to deal with some of those extreme cases that involve the worst things you can imagine. But every family can imagine the struggle that happens between your Kids and parents and boundaries when it comes to technology, most parents are just tired of that. And then a lot of families have experienced the changes that happen happened in kids because of too much social media, for example, or screen addiction, for example, where it's this stress, anxiety, even depression, that results. So it's become my mission, my life's work, if you will, to provide a better way for parents to provide technology to their kids in a way that harnesses the good of technology, because kids are all getting used to technology as they get older. And frankly, they need technology for school, for work, to discover their passions and enjoy their hobbies, like technology is part of our lives. But we want to get them away from the inappropriate content, the cyberbullying, the predators, then you know, that stress, anxiety, and depression that comes from social media, that's, that's really been our goal if you're

Kirk Chugg 
not familiar with what Troomi Wireless is, it's a phone, it's a Samsung phone, and it looks like a normal smartphone, right. And it functions like a normal smartphone, except for the parent, it has the ability to decide what apps go on the phone, and also who the contacts are on the phone. And the kid can send a request and then you approve it like in the parent portal. You can see the text, you can see how many texts you can see how many phone calls they've made, how long they've been on the phone, how many blocked calls, and how many blocked text messages from blocked numbers have come in, it's quite a cool back end for a parent to be able to see the habits of what the kids are going and doing on their phones. I'm a customer of true me actually a funny story. So I ordered some Troomi phones, and then Bill texts me, I just got an order from Kirk Chugg for two phones, how are you doing? And I was like, wow, that's customer service when the CEO sees your order, and text you. But these phones have been really good because we started with some that were, you know, very basic text and call phones, which is exactly what we needed at the time. But my 14-year-old boys needed a little bit more of an introduction to some technology. So they can use some of the reading apps, some of the school apps, some of the things that are used and encouraged to be used in schools, maps, technology's tracking, we use, like live 360, to see where the family is. And all of those types of apps are available. With true me and I don't have to worry about like, I can turn Google on or I can turn Google off. And I like that, like when they're ready for that, I can turn that on, and kind of monitor what they're doing. So just for a little bit of a background, if you haven't yet heard of Treme wireless, I want to give you a background of what types of phones these are, but kids like them, because they look like their regular smartphones, right?

Bill Brady
They have phenomenal cameras and take great pictures they do, you know, you hit on a really important point there that you wanted your boys to have the resources they needed to progress to learn to grow. And that's really what we set out to do to create an operating system. It's really the operating system, that's our product. And we spent a year building it. And it's built in a way that you can cater that phone environment to an eight-year-old. So they have just talked text, for example, or to a 14-year 15-year old that needs apps for school and does need some access to the internet. So it's really the phone that grows with your kids is what we call it. And it's been super, super well received by the families who use it.

Kirk Chugg 
And you bring up a really good point too. Sometimes, the sticky point is not necessarily the technology. It is the fight between the parent and the kid about what's appropriate and when it's appropriate. Because some kids just have, you know, leash off, they have a smartphone when they're eight and have access to absolutely everything. And they see that and they say well, you know, my friends have all got these other phones, and then it kind of creates strife between the parent and the kid. And that's been an issue at my house. And Treme has helped with that, moving them in the direction of an unrestricted smartphone. But it gives me the opportunity to talk to them about their habits too because I can see the rolling seven-day average of how many texts they send. That's alarming. That's alarming.

Bill Brady
You've got boys, I've got teenage girls, and I guarantee my numbers are more alarming.

Cory Moore 
Yeah, as a teen and one teenage girl, do you know what you're talking about? I've mine, my teenage girl. It's alarming. For sure how many texts are out? So how did this go with your kids? Were they the guinea pigs for the phone and did they help you determine how it was going to work and yeah, you know, what they needed and didn't need and all that

Bill Brady
As a family, our first guinea pig was my oldest daughter, she'll be a teen next month. But when she was 12, is starting to babysit, it was clear that she needed something. And like a lot of families in America, we had cut the cord, we didn't have a home phone per se. And so that meant when you know, Becca was gonna go babysit at someone's house, she needed a phone. And so her first phone was a flip phone and work great. flip phones have become harder and harder to get, you know, as Becca matured, you know, we did go, the iPhone route. And it was just hard to manage. Hard to stay on top of that, you know, that's been her experience. And you know, we created it as a lockdown experience there she handled it fairly well. There are other stories where people get around some of those controls, and it doesn't go as well, thank goodness with us and Becca did with my next kids, though, just even from experiences that we've had with Becca. I had decided to delay that first cell phone more, right around the time that our second daughter was 12. I gave her one of these other devices on the market that's very locked down to talk in text only. And initially, she was excited. She got her first vote. It's the rite of passage. But within 30 days, she never had it with her. I mean, even it sat on the kitchen counter as decor. And so I pulled her aside, I said, Hey, Jenna, give us give me some feedback here. I thought you were excited about getting a phone. Why don't you ever have it with you? And her feedback was really enlightening. Some of the things that she said. Number one, she said, Dad, I love photography, it's my number one hobby, and the camera quality here is so poor that I can't do anything with the pictures. I'd like to have an app for graphic design, and I would like to have the apps I need for a school like she's required to use Canvas and skyward. There are times that I need access to the web to a set, you know, even a safe browser, where a parent can control you know, the websites. That's what we do with true me, it was clear that you know, there had to be a better approach, and kind of in the existing landscape there was that the approach of hey, give your kid a $1,300 iPhone that can do anything and everything. And we're learning as a society that's not safe. You know, it's not a smart way to start. On the other end of the spectrum, it was something that was so locked down, that it was really impractical for the kid and as a result impractical for the parents, not really meeting that family's needs. That was the genesis of this vision to create something that would grow with the child and help them meet their needs. So yeah, my daughter, Jenna, in that experience, where she gave me that feedback, that was pivotal to building what we built. And on top of that initial feedback from her. You know, it was interviews with hundreds of parents, it was a nationwide market research study with 800 moms and we got a lot of input into what should go into this operating system that we were building Sightholder your kids now I've got five, my first three are girls in they are almost 1815 in 12. And then I've got two little guys who are nine and almost six the little guys they want to do is camp and shoot BB guns and have campfires, I'm going to keep it that way as long as possible. Amen. Love it. I love that time with them. In with the girls. Yeah, we've tried to have that very, you know, graduated intentional approach with technology as opposed to just saying, Here you go, you know, have at it.

Kirk Chugg 
So you are obviously more than just a technology Phone Guy. And one of the reasons I wanted to have you on was because of your experience with this, but also because of know the type of intentional father you are. So talk to us about some of the lessons that you're trying to teach your kids right now and how you're doing it.

Bill Brady
Oh, I love that. So with all my kids, we're trying to teach them and I say we because my wife is you know, every bit as much a part of this learning process. She's She's incredible. Her name's Heidi. We're trying to teach them that people are more important than devices, that there's nothing that matches in this world, a real human relationship. That you know, if you're going to love somebody, serve somebody really has a bond with somebody that does not happen with a device. There are cases where a device can supplement that. But that's not where it happens devices are never more important than people ever. It was kind of But what are those little epiphany moments? A few years ago, my wife's family was in town and, you know, hadn't seen her siblings for a while. And you know, we're having a nice visit. And at one point, I look around the living room, and everyone's on a device. And I was like, What are we doing? Like, No, put the devices down. Like, if you're going to be here for a visit, let's have a visit. Again, you just fall into that, because it's so normal. We always have these things with us. And so we were really trying to teach the kids to be intentional, let the device be a tool, not a lifestyle. Let's be outside, let's be active, let's be enjoying everything that world has, for us not just cooped up in, you know, our rooms with devices. It's that's not living.

Cory Moore 
Do you guys have things you do as a family that help you connect? You know, are there traditions or things that you do on an ongoing basis that help you have that inner connection inside your own family?

Bill Brady
When it comes to technology, we definitely have some rules, you know, so for example, no devices at the dinner table, you know, we want to keep dinnertime as family time in we try to be as consistent with family dinner as possible. And that's hard. It's hard with all the places kids have to be and part-time jobs and sports. But we really tried to make that a priority. On Sundays, we tried to put devices away and just play board games and hang out, that's really positive. We keep devices out of the bedrooms. So every other device goes to the kitchen counter at night for charging. That's where they sleep. Heidi has also really led us in an effort to be outside with my boys in my girls when they were younger. They all enjoyed camping. My boys would go camping every single day if my schedule would allow it. But as a family, we really tried to be outside and Heidi's led us in. I don't know if you've heard of 1000 hours outside. Have you heard of that program?

Cory Moore 
I haven't sounded check it out. It's

Bill Brady
it's a national program and a challenge to say to families that spend 1000 hours outside in a year. Do the breakdown on that. That's a lot of hours every day. It's a challenge that helps you enjoy nature in there are restorative benefits to just being outside. Yeah, certainly the family time spent together in the time of devices is all positive. So that's something that we embrace as well.

Kirk Chugg 
I think a camping trip this summer is in store

Bill Brady
100%.

Kirk Chugg 
With Italy's with those two little boys. Oh, my

Bill Brady
goodness, yeah. 100%. Let's do that.

Kirk Chugg 
You've always been a really well-read guy. I always remember you talking about books that have impacted you. It's been a while since I asked you the question, what are some of the books that you've read recently that have made an impact on you?

Bill Brady
So recently, I've been reading a lot of books about this space that I'm working in. One that's really poignant, and always on top of my mind is called IGN, a researcher from the University of California at San Diego. And in this book, she really talks about this crisis that we've inadvertently started with our young people. She says, No, we're on the verge of the biggest mental health crisis our country has ever known. It's directly related to technology. And it's taking humanity out of childhood, where, you know, so many of our kids are growing up, with technology more than they are with people. And I know that sounds crazy. But look at the patterns of how much time kids spend on devices, we're naive to think that that does not have an effect on the way our brains form, and the way our social skills develop. It does. And in this doctor Jean Twinkie, her name is Ian, she, you know has a very evidentiary-based approach to showing we have more mental health issues in this country now than we ever have. And if you look at the Centers for Disease Control, that's borne out in skyrocketing suicide statistics among young people. The tragedy of that is unspeakable, you know, and if this effort, that that we're involved in to provide kids and families with a better way to do technology could save one life, it will be worth it. Our goal is to touch millions of lives and help families to get a better grasp on this,

Cory Moore 
that she talked about. I think we kind of know the negatives of the social media and technology world we're living in. I mean, it creates a false sense of reality. Because everyone's posting what they want you to see. Right. Certainly, some predatory things are scary out there. But I think it's this the general population, it's more of this false sense of what reality is and who I'm supposed to be. And I'm judging myself against the outside world. And I'm not actually seeing that world the way it is, but the way they're portraying it. Is there any conversation that you've had or that you know, some of these you've read have had about what are the positive things that are happening with technology, right? Because there is certainly a lot of positive for sure. So I think if you can direct your kids towards the positive, right, like so, access to these books to a podcast, like the one we're on, there's some really amazing things, we just got to get our kids to understand the difference. That's really in my mind when it comes down to as you know, let's make a checklist. These are the things that are going to make you look at the world in a way that isn't reality. And here are some things you could do in technology that is just going to be amazing for you and, you know, grow yourself kind of a thing.

Bill Brady
Yeah, there's no question, we actually wrote a blog post about this on our website, you know, and talked about the upsides because it's easy to get into that. Technology is bad technologies. And there is a lot of truth to a lot of aspects of that. But we try not to just be this fearful voice. Because there's so much good that technology can do. I had one of these experiences recently, you know,, during the pandemic when I was working from home, and you know, locked up in my home office all day, every day, I came up at one point, and my wife had the kids in the living room. And they were having a live guided tour of Jamestown, from a docent at Jamestown, who had been there for 20 years. And it was so good that I ended up sitting down and watching this thing because it was riveting. It wrapped up. And I said kids, this was a perfect example of what technology you know can be used for it expands our reach, gives us new opportunities, helps us focus on the right content can influence our thinking, and help us see new ideas and,, you know, super positive example. You know, in my family another obvious positive example, my family's in Canada, you know, I came out to came out here almost 30 years ago, and so my kids their connections with their cousins in Canada and with my parents, you know, without technology, it wouldn't have been the same. So you know, that's an obvious one, but can't be overstated. It's just in the pursuit of those positive things. Let's make sure that we're filtering out the negative things. And at least allowing kids to take on the additional functions and responsibilities as the need truly warrants and as their brains are developed enough to deal with them. I do know how to react if I get some inappropriate content, and I do know how to react if or identify someone who might be predatory. And frankly, in regard to the social media stuff, I know the difference between what's a fake narrative and what's reality. And I can deal with this fear of missing out culture that we live in. Technology's not bad, it just needs to be a graduated introduction.

Kirk Chugg 
That's the key right there. Because all of us are in this position where we have to introduce technology for our kids to be able to learn how to use it. But we have to also watch them fail at it a little bit, but not so much that it's a detrimental failure, finding that balance is a really difficult thing to find because you don't want your kids to go down a path where, you know, they get addicted to a certain type of content or a certain type of habit of staying in touch with friends. But you also want to be there that you want them to be under the umbrella of having a family having a coach having a mentor to help them learn how to use that technology. And that balance is just extremely difficult to find.

Bill Brady
You know, it's interesting that you say that because I've talked to a few families that have used another solution that's just completely locked down to talk and text. It literally does nothing else. And I've seen them, you know, providing that to their 17-year-old boys. And I've called him out. And I've said, if you think your son is not going to be addicted to pornography two weeks after he leaves home, you're wrong. Yeah, he's got to learn discipline, he's got to have, the opportunities to learn how to use technology effectively. And by just bubble wrapping and bubble wrapping, bubble wrapping. That's not a great long-term solution.

Cory Moore 
Now my wife's always telling me that she's like Korea, we have to walk them into this because they can't just leave the house and then they're all in, you'll be in big trouble. And you have to walk them into technology because, by the time they leave, they need to, they're going to have access to everything, right. There's not a big difference, but a lot of time it does not pass between 15 and 18 as just a couple of years. Anyway. Well, I wanted to ask you some of the best podcasts we have are when We talk about either lessons learned or the hardest parts of being a dad, you know, like, so if you look back on your life as a father, what are some of those moments where you went, Man, this was a defining moment in our lives, or this is a lesson learned that I had that I wish I would have done differently. Give me something in that space.

Bill Brady
I've actually had a lot of that on my mind recently, with our oldest daughter getting ready to leave home, you know, she's going through that process right now of getting all her university applications back and deciding, you know, what the next chapter is? And I've spent a lot of time thinking about my relationship with Becca, you know, what are the things that I can say? I think I did that, at least Okay. In other areas where I think, Oh, my goodness, if I had that one to do over again, I would, I've always tried to spend time with my kids. That's always been of the utmost importance to me. So no regrets in that case. But I think when I was younger, I took things way too seriously and got impatient too much. I mean, I think it was specific examples that bring tears to my eyes, where I've gone back and apologized to some of my kids. You know, there was a Christmas Eve, we just lost a baby. We lost our first boy, who was stillborn right before his due date. And that was right before Christmas when we lost this little guy in Haiti who was beside herself with grief. And so I was trying to keep a strong face and make Christmas happen for my other three kids. And Christmas Eve, you know, the kids were going to bed and my oldest daughter was just so excited. So excited and bouncing off the walls. And amid all the stress of having lost this child, like literally, we buried him on the 23rd of December. And I snapped and got after Becca for free not gonna bet on Christmas Eve. It still just kills me inside. I think I apologize every Christmas. She's like, Dad, let it go. I don't even remember that I do. And that's just a very poignant example. But I think, you know, if I had to do it over again, it's, there's always this fine balance, right? You want to be friends with your kids, but you've got to be a parent first. And I think it's possible to do both. I've always thought that as a parent, you got to provide boundaries, you got to provide more than anything, for example, you know, those boundaries have to come with consequences. And some of these parents get into this trap of feeling like they can't be the parent and have boundaries, or I'm going to destroy that friendship. I don't think that's true. I think you can you can have, hey, a family culture. And this is how we do things in our family. And I love you and I respect you. But this is how we do things in our family. When I was young, I would say I took myself too seriously. And some things were I probably turned, you know, the proverbial ant hills into mountains when I didn't need to. That's when I would do it over again.

Cory Moore 
I did the same thing. I still catch myself doing that actually making too big of a deal. And then a couple hours later, okay. Even a couple hours, right. Okay. I was probably a little bit of an overreaction to that situation. So I think we've all been there.

Bill Brady
There's the poem trying to remember the author. It's in. It shows up in How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie. There's a poem that you know, but a dad who has Oh yeah, reprimanded his son over and over and over again in a quiet moment is crushed, as he realizes, wow, I've been too hard on this boy. And he goes in and kisses his son, you know, while he's sleeping and says, Son, tomorrow, remember that your boy. And I'll be a better dad. That had a huge impact on me and helped me not take things as seriously as I did. And that's

Cory Moore 
a fantastic book. I have my 15-year-old just read that. And I had forgotten that that poem was in there, though. That's a fantastic poem. Yeah.

Kirk Chugg 
So there are three of us at the table. And all three of us have struggled with that same thing as young dads. We were we took ourselves too seriously. I think it's that stress of I don't want to screw this up. This is my first huge responsibility in life. I don't want to be a failure at it and take myself so seriously, that the end up doing things that I know, regret, and or that you learn from later in life. So if you're a young dad listening to the podcast, take it from three of us hold guys. Give yourself a little bit of a break. Do your best. And don't take yourself so seriously. That you can enjoy the process of raising your kids.

Cory Moore 
I think Bill's had some good there where he said, you know, it'd be the parent first, but you can also be their friend, I think the key to that is, in my mind it is to have this idea of unconditional love, right? I think if I was a younger parent talking to myself, I would say, if you do everything with love, then you can have both. Right? You can be the parent. But you're coming from a place of love

Bill Brady
100%, I had one of the pivotal lessons that I learned about fatherhood. It came from my wife's uncle. When we were newly married before we had kids, we were at a family reunion. And she's got a massive family as her mom had. It was a family of 12 kids. And they all had, you know, eight or 10 Kids get a huge family. And we're at this family reunion. And there was this one particular aunt and uncle, whose kids were so happy and kind and polite, and, you know, everyone is there, this great family, but just this, this one group stood out to me, and I pulled the data side and I said, hey, you've got to tell me, what have you done? Because your kids, I'm watching them there are wonderful. And he said, For me, it comes down to one thing. I say yes, as much as I can. So that when I say no, it means something. And I took that to heart. And it really influenced my parenting style. My daughter, Becca, she'll be 18. And she's leaving home, you know, at the end of the summer. In 18 years, I have never had a shouting match with her. Not one. Literally not one. You know, part of that is just her personality. That's the way she came wired. When we have a disagreement. She doesn't shout at me, she comes up and comes to me with a very well-thought-out proposal. And like she needs to be an attorney, you know. And the part of it is that she knows I love her unconditionally. I respect her fully and completely. And I have always tried to say yes. And she knows that when I say no. Okay. I mean, there's clearly a line here. I'll follow that line.

Cory Moore 
That's good advice. That's a good story. I like that. I wish I would have done that better.

Kirk Chugg 
Yeah, that is great advice. That might be your wife's uncle's quote, and might go on some type of a gentleman project, social post, or something this week, that would be great. You and I shared the story. As I was starting the gentleman project and speaking with people about fatherhood, we sat at Snowbird, once, and you told me the story about losing your little boy. And it impacted everybody so much. I remember everyone at the table had tears in their eyes, and you and I just sat there next to each other and just cried. And I think it was probably a little fresher in your life. At that point, because this was probably 10 years ago, almost. I've noticed that there are a lot of people that have dealt with that situation, and they kind of deal with it on their own or in their own community of people who have dealt with that. So I want to ask you a question, how did that impact your life? What did it do for your life? What blessings have you seen because of it? Because I know that you've taken it in that direction? And what would you say to people to support people who have been through something like losing a child?

Bill Brady 
So statistically, it's a tough situation, in terms of what happens to couples after losing a child. And we had a midwife who was helping with that pregnancy, a wonderful lady. And she pulled Heidi me aside the next morning. And she said I need you guys to make a promise to me that you will not let this tragedy affect your relationship. And I kind of looked at her like, well, of course not like what are you talking about? She said 75% of couples that lose a baby like that end up in divorce, which is not significantly higher than the average for divorce, if we made that commitment, you know, that we would not in our own grief, let that turn into anything negative with each other. For us, the timing of that, you know, came on top of some other trials, you know, I'd had a tough year. And when that happened in December, it was like What else could go wrong in life is in for us it meant really turning to our faith and in trusting in our faith in finding the peace you know through our belief and, in turning to God, the impact of that, you know, last, to this day this is 13 years later, I think that's important. Number one is, you know, turn to your spouse, don't let any negativity that arises from your grief fester in turn into a wedge in that relationship. You know, find your solace find your, you know, your coping through your spouse, and through, you know, in faith means different things to different people. But, whatever faith you have, let that be a big part of your life.

Kirk Chugg 
Thanks for sharing that with us. It's a tender topic to talk about. Certainly,

Cory Moore 
I was going to ask you how did that affect the other kids? Was that a big effect on them? Or? Or were they too young to see that? And how did that affect the overall family?

Bill Brady 
We actually had a pretty magical experience. You know, I remember being in the hospital. A friend had come over well, it had to deliver this little boy that wasn't there. You know, he was gone. But we had to go through labor and delivery of his body. And a friend had come over. And I had to go talk to our other kids who were, you know, they were expecting a baby to come home. So I excused myself for an hour, they were at a friend's place where we were watching them. And as I'm driving over there, I'm saying this prayer, Please, God, help me understand how to talk to these little girls. And, I remember taking them aside, the two older girls, our youngest was 18 months, she really didn't understand at all. But my two older girls, you know, were three and five, three, and six. And so I pulled them aside into another room in the house and explained, you know what, the Jack wasn't coming, wasn't coming home that he had gone to heaven. And my three-year-old daughter got this incredible look of realization and understanding on her face. And she said, So what you're saying is that Jack was going to be our little brother. But instead, he's going to be our big brother, and he'll be watching us. Just lost it. I just lost it and looked heavenward and said, Thank you. You know, and Jack's always been a part of our family life. You know, we talked about him, we celebrate his birthday every year. And you know, for years and years ago, if the girls were asked how many kids are in your family, they always included him. I think it was a great experience from the perspective of learning something, it was a great experience for the girls to see, hey, you can have tough things happen. You can get through it. Their connection to faith was also strengthened. As a cool story.

Kirk Chugg 
Bill, thanks for sharing all those things with us today. I think all of us can identify with a part of what you spoke to and spoke about today. And appreciate your sharing those parts of your fatherhood journey with us. At the end of every podcast, we always ask each guest that we interview, what they think it means to be a gentleman, do you like to answer that?

Bill Brady
Absolutely. Makes me think of my dad. And I lost my dad this last year. And I had a twin sister growing up. Well, I still have a twin sister. Growing up with a twin sister, my dad just always talked to me about being a gentleman. It was something he talks about a lot. We'd find every just common everyday opportunity to teach a principle about that. So some of the takeaways that I learned as a kid, you know, was taking care of my twin sister. The number one part of being a gentleman in our home was treating women with respect and kindness. Didn't matter if that was mom or sister or any, any woman just to treat them with that kindness and respect. As I grew older, I realized that it's not it's women. Certainly, it's everyone. You know, a gentleman treats everyone with kindness and respect. A gentleman goes out of his way to make other people comfortable. A gentleman will sacrifice himself to make sure that someone else is having a good experience. I think in that process, you know a gentleman is a positive thinker. He lifts those around him, but it really comes down to the kind of work core values of it for me have always been that, that kindness and respect and just goodness toward other people.

Cory Moore 
Great answer. Love it. Thanks, Bill. Bill's always been a gentleman to me.

Kirk Chugg 
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. look him up. Yep. In the dictionary. There's a Bill. There's a Bill over there.

Cory Moore 
The man, the myth, the legend, and a gentleman.

Kirk Chugg 
Do you want to do an outro for Bill like you did an intro, the man the myth, the legend? 

The gentleman Bill. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for listening to Mr. Bill Brady, the man the myth, the legend. I was at this gentleman.

Bill Brady
The gentleman. Thank you both. It's been great to Great to be with you. And I sure appreciate everything that you're doing. And

Kirk Chugg 
thanks, Bill. Thanks for being like if people want to know more about Bill's company, they can visit treme.com tr o mi.com. And he's I don't know that he'll send you a personal text when you do an order. But he did me. That's pretty cool. Thanks, Bill. We appreciate you, everybody. Thanks for listening. If you haven't subscribed to the podcast, hop over to your favorite platform where you listen to podcasts. And like, subscribe, and drop us a rating and a review. We really, really appreciate it. That's something you can do to share the podcast with somebody else. We've always got social media posts as well that you can share and spread the love and the message that Bill gave us today. We appreciate everybody. Thanks for joining us. I'm Kirk Chugg.

Cory Moore 
And I'm Cory Moore. Have a great day.