The Gentlemen Project Podcast
Podcast highlighting impactful stories of parents and what they do to be successful at home and at work. Helping you turn the time you have with your kids into time well spent helping them learn the most important lessons in life. The Gentlemen Project Podcast is hosted by Kirk Chugg and Cory Moore-friends who are passionate about fatherhood and raising the next generation of great kids.
The Gentlemen Project Podcast
Parenting Strategies for the Digital Age with Matthew Poll
Parenting in the digital age comes with its own set of challenges, and we dive headfirst into this complex topic. Discover the delicate balance between being a parent and a friend, and why fostering resilience in children may require letting them face adversity. Our conversation takes an analytical turn as we explore this generational paradox, dissecting the effects of social media on mental well-being and time management. We also talk about the potential of artificial intelligence in education—should AI become a staple in classrooms to equip students for the future? These compelling discussions offer a fresh perspective on the societal shifts driven by technology's pervasive influence on youth today.
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Welcome to the Gentlemen Project Podcast. I'm Cory Moore.
Kirk Chugg:Kirk Chugg. Today, Matthew Poll joins us in the studio. Matthew and I met each other a couple years ago. He was on a panel for some cryptocurrency panels that we were learning about crypto, and he's big into a lot of tech. As I've got to know him a little bit better, he's got his hands in many different fires and he's very smart. He's involved here in the Utah scene.
Kirk Chugg:We're excited to talk to him on a personal level, too, about some of the things that he's learned throughout his life, both including how he was raised and some of the things that we've talked about in the past. I'm really excited he has even done he just told us he's done an AI audit. This is how he uses AI, this is how we're all going to be using AI and in 15 years we're going to go. Yeah, everybody used it that way, dude On the Gentleman Project podcast, to kind of get an idea of what we talk about. So he knows and it's pretty cool, pretty cool way to find out. So, matt, tell us a little bit about yourself, your background, your family and what's going on in your life right now.
Matthew Poll:In the work front, the work scene here in Utah. I'm involved in some SaaS companies. I know a company called Green Chart which is a charting software company that we started years ago, and we have a specialty project called Strategy Suite, which is like a community where traders can go and all the data around their strategies that they're trading actually gets shared with the community and it becomes this kind of like high-level community-driven success pool where everyone knows going in, everything they contributed is shared with the group but then, as everyone shares with the group, the tide kind of lifts for all the members. So, anyways, doing that with a green chart, you were right, like on a I would say even a political front.
Matthew Poll:Uh, heavily involved in ai, heavily involved in the crypto blockchain space, helped form the blockchain. Utah's coalition helped with the AI policy group here in Utah also. So I love having my fingers in that, because I really actually love Utah. I'm a California transplant, came from Southern California about 20 years ago and came with kind of a chip on my shoulder like an attitude Like, oh, like, I'm not going to like Utah, yeah, like.
Kirk Chugg:Oh, like, I'm not going to like Utah.
Matthew Poll:Yeah, yeah, oh yeah. And you see it a lot from the people that move here it's like oh yeah, california is better, here's why Right.
Matthew Poll:It was like everything was a comparison to California. And after about two years I was like oh, I get it. I get why Utah is so great. I get why we don't want to change these things. I get why and you know, I was raising a new family at the time, looking for opportunities for growth as an entrepreneur. And looking back at it now, there's no way I could have done that in California.
Matthew Poll:And looking at the politics now like I would never go back, I'd never recommend kids to go there. You know what I mean. Like like just the edge alone, uh, the advantage, the competitive advantage alone. It's just like why you start with a handicap, uh, but I just never would have known that. So grew up, uh, born and raised California, um, grew up pretty conservative, uh, religious conservative and um, and had a lot of life happen to me since then.
Cory Moore:Yeah, Well, that's what we're here to talk about. Is the life part? Yeah?
Matthew Poll:right and I got a sense of that with your. You're right, I did like this AI audit. I got a real good sense of like this podcast and I like how off the hinges you guys go. I like how unscripted you are. Yeah, I'm really excited to do that with you.
Cory Moore:Well, we kind of started with hey, let's teach our kids how to be gentlemen which turned into. Let's teach our kids how to be good people which turned into. Let's ask people like what makes them them and what they're trying to teach their kids, and so that's kind of what the podcast turned into. The Gentleman Project podcast turned into something a little bigger than being a gentleman. Podcast turned into the gentleman project podcast turned into something a little bigger than being a gentleman. So what kind of things did you learn growing up from your folks, from your reading, from your friends that kind of made you who you are today in your mind?
Matthew Poll:Yeah, I love that. I think we all have these like hidden mentors, that if you go back you're like, oh interesting, that person and the idea of who I thought they were really became the model of who I became.
Matthew Poll:Yeah for sure, and I would say from like a religious context, a lot of those were the leaders of men that I watched. You know they say it takes a town to raise a child and it really does Like it wasn't just my dad who was like the figure of like what it meant to raise a child and it really does Like it wasn't just my dad who was like the figure of like what it meant to be a man. It was the leaders that were constantly working with me and, some cases, other young adults and, I think, more importantly, the ones that I attached to and thought that's what it looks like to be successful, that's what it looks like to be an adult and doing it well, where in a lot, of, a lot of times I felt like my dad was also the example of what not to do. I don't know if you guys had any of that.
Kirk Chugg:Yeah, we've had quite a bit of that on the podcast, yeah.
Matthew Poll:And so it's kind of like a mix of both. It's like, oh, I really liked this, but I would also see the thing that perpetuated probably my success the most was the whatnot Like. The things I watched my parents struggle with the most became the thing I was committed to never experience, and it was definitely financial right. It was definitely around money having even, at times, food scarcity at the house where I wasn't privy to that. But I could see the emotion behind my mom and my dad having these arguments and my mom just like in tears sometimes about what I could understand was had something to do with money. And then later to find out as an adult it was like, yeah, we were getting food assistance and like my dad was really struggling in certain times in my life to like even put food on the table.
Kirk Chugg:So it's like no wonder.
Matthew Poll:no wonder I became who I became.
Cory Moore:Right there were definitely for good or bad motivation that helped me there, so that pushed you into being an entrepreneur, I would imagine.
Matthew Poll:For sure.
Matthew Poll:And I think if you look at the data, it's pretty common. Yeah, I'm not saying that we all had that story, but there's usually some childhood trauma that actually drives us to be these entrepreneurs. And then we get the money, and then we like, oh, this is, this is why I do things the way I do it. This is this, you know, and we have the luxury to kind of step back and maybe focus on the things that matter more. So I love it. That's why I love this too. I love this whole conversation.
Cory Moore:It almost happens with every entrepreneur story too. Like, whatever reason they become an entrepreneur might be a little different, but usually there's this give it everything, I've got crazy amount of hours for X amount of time. And then there's this I made money, and then I took step back and I thought, oh, hours for X amount of time. And then there's this I made money and then I took step back and I thought, oh man, I wish I would have done things a little different during that time. Sure, it made me who I am and I couldn't look back to 2020 unless I had done that. But now that I can, I see the world a little different, right?
Kirk Chugg:Yeah. So, Matt, when you were talking about when you were young, you had this idea of what you thought it was like to be a successful man. I'm just curious, like paint that picture, Like I could almost tell that you like had somebody in your mind like that's who I want to be like.
Matthew Poll:What did that guy look like? Yeah, no, it's like. Immediately you said it. It's like, oh yeah, it's Mark. It's Mark Larson. You know credit to Mark. I don't know if you'll ever hear this, but uh, he was an orthodontist. You know, he was actually going through dental school when I first met him beautiful wife, two young kids and had an incredible capacity to serve and his, his family. The larsons actually owned all the scandias out in california. It like a micro, it would be like Lagoon here, but there were like two or three of them out there.
Kirk Chugg:Like an amusement park.
Matthew Poll:Yeah, huge micro amusement parks. When I say micro, because in California it's like Disneyland.
Kirk Chugg:Yeah.
Matthew Poll:And there was just something about him and he had had a life altering experience as a child Almost died when he was like eight.
Matthew Poll:So I think it gave him a really unique perspective on life at a very young age and I would watch him among other men and there was this grace, kind of this respect for life, that the little things didn't get past him for life.
Matthew Poll:That the little things didn't get past him.
Matthew Poll:I would watch him work with some of my friends that would like even hated him, you know, like, did not like him because he was, in a way, he was kind of the picture of something perfect in a way, from our view and how, as a teenager, you kind of rebellious teenager, it's like, oh yeah, I don't want anything to do with that, like that's the opposite, that's the counterculture I'm trying to create and I would watch him just love them in a way that was so profound that even like I remember one of them, one of my buddies, andy, he came to me he was like, oh, I just like everyone, but Mark Like this thing.
Matthew Poll:It's interesting like why how could you not like this guy? Right? And I would watch Mark work with him. And this is me, being a teenager, like observing this, and he was just always available, like so gracious with his time and like on his level and, and I remember there's this moment I don't remember it was a camping trip or something happened where he like turned and he was like, yeah, like Mark really gets me.
Matthew Poll:And I really feel like like from that day on they were buddies and just like that kind of investment in the youth and that kind of investment in young men. Uh, I never got over and I want to say I have like an addiction help young people. But there's like this interesting I love the teenage years for young men. For some reason. I've always, it's always been a thing for me. It's always like that's my group, that's my, that's the place I'll probably have the biggest contribution, my, that's the place I'll probably have the biggest contribution, and it just uh, I have two boys, circumstantially now, you know, and they're going into teenage years and it's really interesting to see, you know, their mother, uh is very great mother. By the way, we're not married. We're not married anymore.
Matthew Poll:Um and I'll I'll admit names just for her sake right.
Matthew Poll:But we have such a great relationship and we co-parent so well. But there's just something different that a male provides kids and I have the benefit of seeing so many broken families where the male steps out, families where the male steps out and then the kids get the lack of having that relationship and the effects. They go so much further than the statistics, so much further than, like, the data that shows that they're gonna. You know, there's a higher probability of them ending up in incarcerated or not being formally educated or not in this income bracket. Yeah, those data points are all there, but it just goes so much further than that, like the emotional impact the emotional side of it, yeah.
Matthew Poll:And then who they become and who they influence later and the rolling effect of this. It's tragic, but also something I'm just completely committed to not have happen. Most, first and foremost, my kids, my boys, and then when I have time, it's like I love giving to that community, like that's my home.
Kirk Chugg:I think that kind of lends to the conversation of why these mentors like Mark were so important to you, because in a lot of these young men's lives maybe they have had a father who's had to, you know, step back.
Kirk Chugg:That's like maybe partial custody, or they don't have this continuing influence on a daily basis from someone who has completely and 100% checked into their lives or can't check into their lives. And so these mentorships through church groups or sports coaching high school sports I know that's where a lot of people get their male mentorship is the approval of their coaches and that's such an important thing for them in their lives to have that male to recognize. Maybe part of Matt Matt's story and his friend's story is you know, I serve with the youth and sometimes I'm like they don't like me at all, right, you know they, they would rather not be here, they would rather be anywhere but here, right, and sometimes it feels like wasted time. But here, right, and sometimes it feels like wasted time, um, but your, your story there kind of gives me some some hope and some some gas in my tank to to keep going and and plugging through some of those tough times well and it's a.
Matthew Poll:It's really a tragedy. Like I was part of the scouting program.
Matthew Poll:Like hardcore yeah, and you served in the scouting program eagle scout like 17 years afterwards right right years after served in it and to see these like there's obvious reasons that we see these organizations kind of rise and fall. There's a lot of cloudiness in that organization. There's a lot of things that happened that like have painted a really ugly picture on the scouting program acknowledged and the benefits. It's like we're what are we doing now for the youth, where we get together and we have organized structure to teach them the men, how to be men, women how to be women and Really raise self-esteem? I would say that's probably the biggest problem is we just are lacking structure around how to raise the self-esteem of our young people and as a byproduct, I just saw this study that was bizarre. I don't know if you guys saw this, but they interviewed all the next Gen Y. Now what's the new generation we're at now? I can't remember what it's called.
Matthew Poll:It's not Gen C, it's not Gen Y, but you guys know what I'm talking about the newest generation, gen Zero, I think, is what they're calling it Zero yeah.
Matthew Poll:So they interviewed and did the survey and there are two data points that I saw that was just mind-blowing. The first was like 80 plus percent of this generation feels exhausted. They feel overworked and exhausted. And then the next question that I read was how many hours are they working a week? And it was like 30. And I was just like having this like existential crisis of like wait a minute, they're overworked, they're feeling exhausted, but their workload is like half what I was doing. At their age. I was busting my ass at a construction company, working 60 hours a week. Excuse my French, but it's like that's what was happening, that's what was real and it's like what's happened. What's happened to the self-esteem of our youth.
Cory Moore:Do you think it's social media-based? Because that's where my mind automatically goes. I have kids that are in their teenage years my oldest is super busy now, but kids that are in their teenage years and my oldest is super busy now but when she was a senior in high school, she would come home and she'd be like, well, I don't have time to do my homework and I need to do this. And I'm like, well, you don't have a job, you have a pastime, which is theater, which she was way into, and I finally got into her social media, even with my limits. I'm like, babe, you spent like six hours total today on social media, so of course you didn't have time.
Matthew Poll:You were on social.
Cory Moore:You were on social media for six hours in one day. That's, and I'm my mind just automatically went to. Well, if you cut out some social media, I'm not saying social media is all bad, I'm just saying that anything over an hour probably you're not being efficient with your time.
Matthew Poll:Yeah, yeah, Like. Yeah, we just saw with Tik TOK a 12 hour shutdown. It's crazy.
Matthew Poll:I thought at my house. The world ended, really, yeah. It was like everyone's checking each other's is you're still working? Oh, mine kind of still works. You know mine? Oh, no, it's out now. It was like the world ended yesterday, yeah, yeah.
Matthew Poll:And now Trump's like the world's hero for bringing back social media on a platform that, frankly, I I'm not quite sure Some reservations about. Well, we, it doesn't. You don't have to look hard to find the data on social media. You don't have to look hard, yeah, in terms of mental health, and I think, yes, I think the answer is yes. I think social media is a shortcut to building self-esteem, because if I can get a dopamine hit, that takes me now. In fact, I'll quote one of my kids well, I just don't like Instagram because it just doesn't do it for me. It's like, yeah, yeah, we've raised like our, our ability and our attention span has got cut probably by a fourth. Where instagram was at least slow swiping, now we're like speed swiping. It's like if this thing doesn't catch me in 15 seconds, I'm out or less.
Kirk Chugg:Yeah, like if it's more than four or five seconds long, it's like it's too long.
Matthew Poll:So I think we're just on the worst drug and China's feeding it. I don't want to be political about this, but it's like and China's feeding it. And one of the funnest things I saw is a friend said he went, got a VPN or something, set his new TikTok account up in China and he was like. It was like I was on a different platform because what they're feeding their people.
Kirk Chugg:Like science, and technology and STEM Versus what?
Matthew Poll:we're getting. It's like, it's like they're like our kids are getting I don't know how else to say it, but they're getting like heroin and like the people over there that they have all these filters or T. Yeah, they're teaching them how to the people over there that they have all these filters, or, yeah, they're teaching them how to their kids, how to like, have jobs and like have patriotism and like learn about finance and science? No serious, it's a totally different platform and their limits are actually ran by the country right, not the parents right.
Matthew Poll:so yes, I I think there's something there, for sure, yeah.
Cory Moore:So tell us more about how you're a tech guy. So AI technology tell us about. How is that affecting our kids in your mind, or do you have an opinion on that Really?
Matthew Poll:Yeah, yeah, I do. I was on the phone with my kid's mom actually, yeah, cause they're. They're not in high school Once finishing his last year, elementary one's middle of middle school so pretty early still for that.
Matthew Poll:So like, I think, high school. We start seeing a lot of this ai conversation happening. But it is happening in middle school to the degree my kids know how to use it. They know how to use it to ask questions, help them with their homework, even, to some degree, assignments. But it's not quite high school level where kids are straight up having it do their assignments and their mom and I kind of go back and forth because we really don't know what to do at this point. We don't know what the data is going to be, we don't know what the future is going to look like.
Matthew Poll:But it's my opinion, to embrace it completely, which is pretty controversial. To embrace it completely, which is pretty controversial, and what I mean by that is I think you need to have basic formal education, scholastics. You know reading, writing, arithmetic. I think we need to have that. But like, the level at which we regurgitate or have regurgitated information in the past is completely unimportant to our future. That's how. That's how I would say it. Like a good example would be like your phone, like if I asked you what your wife's phone number is, could you tell me?
Cory Moore:Yes, I'm old enough that I can because she's had it pre smartphone.
Matthew Poll:Okay, it's been that long I can Because she's had it pre-smartphone Okay, but I can't tell you my kids' numbers.
Cory Moore:No, I can't tell you my kids' numbers who. I call multiple text and call multiple times a day.
Matthew Poll:to your point, yeah, and I think our generation, and I think we're part of that same generation where we had, like, our top 10 years ago.
Cory Moore:Right, you just had them memorized and you just had them, and that was. I have more gray than you, that's for sure.
Kirk Chugg:Yeah, we're not using that part of our brain anymore because we don't have to.
Matthew Poll:Right, but it I remember when it happened, people were like, oh no, no, you still need to memorize people's number. And there was like a lot of arguing about completely inconsequential arguments. We're like, yes, it's going to take over jobs. Yes, we're not going to think about certain things the same way we used to, but we will still be thinking, just on a much higher level. And it's like, if you're not using the tools, if you're not integrated, then, you're just living on another planet. I mean, it'll be like that.
Cory Moore:I mean, if knowledge is power, okay, well, it's never been easier to get the knowledge in the history of the world. I mean even with the internet. I think AI is even more efficient than we've ever seen. Getting knowledge. You can get any knowledge you want as fast as you can almost imagine it, right, yep. But are you actually getting the knowledge? Cause you can also get just get crap. I think you called it heroin earlier. Right, it's just as easy to get that also. So you kind of need to. It's almost like we need to teach our kids. Well, why don't you focus on getting the right info? Sure, like the Chinese were doing? Sure, get the right info in your brain. And then one other comment I have and I think I've talked about this at work, because we're integrating AI as fast as we can right, as fast as the data we can put in will allow us to get it back out.
Cory Moore:But it also makes human interaction, I think, more important than ever. Also makes human interaction, I think, more important than ever, meaning I can write the greatest in five minutes. I can write the greatest letter you've ever read Sales letter. You name it An email, perfect, copilot, just hit a button.
Cory Moore:So the written communication, in my opinion, is going to mean nothing. A five-year-old can write a great letter to a CEO about why they should hire my company. That takes no brain cells, right. But once you walk in that room, once you pick up the phone, that's going to be, in my opinion, more important than it has been the last couple of decades, because that'll be the differentiator. That's the differentiator. What else is there? Right, and it wasn't like written communication in the last 20, 30 years has been a big deal. Right Because email email became written communication even even more important than it used to be, because we we stopped doing phone calls and we started doing emails. Right. Well, I think it's going to flip back to interpersonal relationship and ability to communicate is going to be key because anyone can write.
Kirk Chugg:Anyway, that's just a thought I had on it, Matt's like no, they're going to have videos of your face and your lips.
Cory Moore:He's probably like well, I know way more than you do.
Matthew Poll:No, I'm not disagreeing. I I think you're right To a degree. I think you're absolutely right to a degree, like to the point my son calls me the other day and it's the most bizarre thing and I actually remember my parents doing this with me where, like, I was like eight and I was like, hey mom, can you, can you call so-and-so to see if he can come over, cause I didn't want to call over there and and get their mom or dad on the phone and not know what to say and feeling all dirt right, my mom's like no you're going to call them honey.
Cory Moore:Oh, that's awesome.
Matthew Poll:And then walked me through how to start a conversation on the phone just basic phone etiquette. But to your point, my son calls me and this was probably like six months ago, and when we call each other, you know there's formality to it. Oh hi, this is Matt. Is this so-and-so Like? Oh, yes, oh, so-and-so speaking, right, Like we just naturally do that, Our kids. There's no programming around this. My son calls me and he's like hey, I'm like. Click calls me back. Hey, what'd you hang up on me? I was like listen, like I don't know if you do this with your friends or like what's going on here, but like you clearly do not know how to like communicate on the phone. So from now on, if you don't communicate this certain way, I'm going going to hang up and like that was my I love this for you, so then I hung up he calls back and he's like struggling right.
Matthew Poll:The first time he's like hey, dad, um, hey, I've got this thing. Nope, click calls me back. He's like I don't get it. What am I doing wrong? Like, okay, it's just really simple. It's like introduce who you are and who you're looking for, and when you pick up a random call, it's always you answer with your name, so the person on the other side knows they either have the right person or not. It just shortcuts things. So, anyways, we go through this exercise and now it's easy for him. He's like hey, hey, dad, it's your son, enzo. You know I've got this thing. Oh, okay, okay, but I'll listen to, like, how they communicate with their friends and the verbal communication piece is completely missing.
Matthew Poll:I agree and it makes sense Totally makes sense. Everything's in text, everything's in text, everything's in forwarding messages and emojis and memes and it's like, wait, do we even need to talk anymore? But then when they get in the real world, it's like yeah, I think we do.
Cory Moore:And my son. I've had to have that same conversation with my teenager.
Matthew Poll:Yeah, I when I call him what do you want, dad Whoa?
Cory Moore:You know what Corey's face is. Are you kidding me? I said, bud, that's not how we do this. Sorry, dad, sorry, hi dad. How can I help you? But he's so used to like, why are?
Kirk Chugg:you? He's basically like a why are you calling me? Couldn't you just text me? Is this an emergency?
Cory Moore:Yeah, I don't understand why you're, why you're calling me. You know, anyway, I've had to have those same conversations with my kids Like explain the etiquette of phone calls. The other thing is, is the new generation? I won't speak any names at my company, but inside our company I'm finding myself having to have those same conversations Like hey, um, did you call them? Well, I texted him. But did you call him? Well, I emailed them. Yeah, you're not listening to what is kind of the words that are coming out of my mouth. I want you to call them, I want you to explain the situation. I want to ask for the sale. I want you to ask for a number here. I want you right, and it's actually pretty crazy how, at all costs, some of our associates will not pick up the phone.
Matthew Poll:Oh yeah.
Cory Moore:Let alone I imagine we don't have these conversations as much let alone get in the car, make an appointment and go see the person, especially for the younger generation. They're just not used to it. They've never been taught that.
Kirk Chugg:Okay, so we've identified the problem right.
Cory Moore:What is?
Kirk Chugg:the solution. I think Matt's got a good idea of like some some basic training, right, sure, of putting your arm around your kid and saying, hey, when you call me, this way I want you to sound like when you call, because it's going to serve you well in your life, right? So some basic micro training, maybe incorporating this into some trainings in your companies. But as we raise the next generation of kids and all of the communication is not interpersonal and it's only going to get more and more that way.
Kirk Chugg:I think for me, I have, I guess, four teenagers.
Kirk Chugg:One of them is technically not a teenager because she doesn't live with me anymore, but, um, when, when you meet my sons at least, um, interpersonal skills has been kind of a thing of the gentlemen project from the beginning, like when you meet my son, so look you in the eye, tell you their name, shake your hand firmly, you know, and, and ask something about you or or something like that.
Kirk Chugg:And just that little thing of being able to introduce yourself with a name or call somebody by name Nice to meet you, jeff Is such a differentiator in that generation that I often get texts after I introduce my sons to other people and they'll say man, what nice kids you have. They're so well behaved and their interpersonal skills are amazing. I'm like all they did was introduce themselves to you, and so I think, pitching this to our kids as hey, you want a superpower, let me teach you a superpower, because this one is going to set you apart from 95% of the kids your age Right and and give them the opportunity to learn. It's not hard to learn. It's hard to practice, but it's not hard to learn what has to be done. The most enjoyable people to be around are those who make you feel important. So if you, you can give your kids that leg up of this is how you make someone else feel important when you meet them, then they will become one of the most attractive people in their circle.
Matthew Poll:So why do you think like what's changed? Why? Why aren't parents motivated or or positioned in a way to do this for their kids anymore? Like what's happened I don't want to say like we're raising weak men, but I'd be an idiot not to say that it's so easy to see. Like what has happened to parents, what's happened to fathers where our motivation shifted at some point and I'm not saying I'm this way, I'm just seeing as a generality there's a lack of teaching our kids to have some grit. There's a lack of teaching our boys to have self-esteem. There's a lack. I don't know what it is. Is it that we're so worried about being their friends? We're so worried that society is going to cancel us? I don't know. I don't know.
Cory Moore:I think that's a great question. I think your friend thing when I talk about it, when I see parents with their kids are kind of a little out there.
Matthew Poll:Yeah.
Cory Moore:It's. Usually it looks as though the parents are trying to be their friend first, instead of their parent first and their friend second. But the why is a good question. I think I'm not sure I know the why behind that general behavior. Sure, and again, I think there's lots of purposeful parents out there that are doing it, that aren't doing that Right.
Cory Moore:There are a lot of purposeful parents out there that we've talked to on the podcast have been focused, but there are a lot and these are good people that have jobs and are smart and are, you know, didn't grew up in a great home and all that kind of stuff, Right Cause there's a lot to be said about. Most of the world doesn't have that. Quite frankly, a lot of the world doesn't even have the foundation. But for those who have this foundation of being brought up with some accountability and some manners and some lessons learned, I don't know the why. I think that's a fantastic question.
Kirk Chugg:I think that our generation will be studied for decades to come because we were the first generation that grew up analog, that turned digital.
Matthew Poll:Like we're all in our forties, in the middle of it.
Kirk Chugg:We're in the middle, so we knew what it was like to grow up with a rotary telephone or a telephone at all in the home and no internet. And our kids will never know that and I don't know if there's some. I mean, I'm sure that there's studies currently being done about our generation and our ability. Like it's way easier to communicate now than it used to be. You know, I remember I got married to my wife and she had these funky motorola phones that had like this over the air walkie-talkie thing on the side and I said, whoa, that's really cool, like you can.
Kirk Chugg:you don't even have to call them, you just push the button and it's like a walkie-talkie and you can use the gmre network or whatever it was was it so you know we're looking at technology like that and now I think we just embrace all technology and I'm not saying that we shouldn't, but we are leaving behind some very important interpersonal skills that I think when we don't practice, we do not build the resiliency in our kids and we don't build the confidence in our kids to be able to like stand up and and be themselves in public.
Matthew Poll:I wonder, like my my mind wonders if I've heard so many interesting quotes about, like the reason our kids don't have self-esteem is because our, as parents, we we steal it from them Like every opportunity for our kids to build self-esteem. The reason they don't is because, as parents, we actually steal it. I mean, like we take it for them Like every opportunity for our kids to build self-esteem.
Kirk Chugg:The reason they don't is because, as parents, we actually steal it.
Matthew Poll:I mean, like we take it for ourselves, make it easy, we shortcut it we for our own self-esteem reasons, to make us look good for our own ego. You know purpose. But for like kids for my boys, like I, have this like really strong belief. Like if I don't train them or if I don't at least treat them as hard as the world's going to be in my house, I've done them a huge disservice and I don't know where that came from, how I got that belief, but I do not see that as a general consensus among fathers in the home.
Matthew Poll:I mean, I do not see that they actually believe it's their job to make it hard, at least as hard as the real world's going to be, meaning like you're setting up situations for self-esteem that would have them fail. Like you'd almost intentionally look for opportunities for them to go out and fail rather than playing a league that's so low that they're always winning, rather than playing a league that's so low that they're always winning. You know what I mean and I've got incredible boys, so I'll caveat that with this. I have incredible boys and they have breakdowns that are so hard sometimes that I just want to scoop them up and like shortcut it.
Matthew Poll:And I find I have to like put myself in check sometimes to do that, rather than going to the teacher myself and like dealing with this thing, have my son do it, or there's a kid at school is bullying him or whatever, and it's rather than me get in the middle of that. Use these as opportunities to have him learn how to deal with the real world in hard circumstances, and I think there's always an opportunity where we do have to come in the middle, right, but for the most part I've found that we don't, and it's, I think, harder to say no, I won't help than it is. I will right now and take the shortcut the payoff, the payoff, but long-term this is going to cost my kid a lot.
Cory Moore:I think it takes some discipline, certainly for a parent. When you just said that, I thought to myself when am I not making it hard on purpose, or when am I? It's usually when it's easier for me. That's the why for me and I think that's probably true for a lot of parents is well, it's just easier if I do it or it's just easier if I don't make it hard. It takes more effort on my part in order to purposefully let them get scratched up and fail and whatever right. And so I think the times that I do it right which hopefully is more than not, but the times I do it right, which hopefully is more than not, but the times I do it right I just need to have my mental. You know, I didn't even mentally be thinking to myself okay, you're getting them ready.
Matthew Poll:Yeah.
Cory Moore:You're doing this on purpose. They need to get hurt. They need to hit the bumper rails, right, and you don't want them to completely fall off the side of the mountain, right, like there is a point where a parent says, okay, I'm going to grab you and pull you back in, but you want them to hit those guardrails, like you're saying, as as often as they can. Because, to your point I think you made a great point. There is what's our job as parents? Get them ready to not need us anymore. Yeah, to be self-reliant. Yeah, right, right, that's literally our job is to make them self-reliant. Well, that's really hard, unless you have that in your head. Sometimes it's just easier. Or sometimes you love them so much you don't want them to have to go through the hard stuff. It's usually one of those two things. So how do you do that? You just automatically had that mindset. Or and what are some examples of, like you letting them? You letting them hit the guardrails, as I'm calling it?
Matthew Poll:It's funny you mention that I literally just had one this week. So Enzo, his mom and I decided we would get him a phone as a carrot for his grades, and the agreement was simple it's all A's one B. Well, his one B is a C+ and they plus and they quarters over ended last Friday. I'll just give you the result Fast forward. He's not getting his phone. Like sorry folks, this doesn't have a happy ending, Maybe. Yes, and it was really hard to rob him, or you know, you always hear these stories of like oh well, he did as much as he could, so I stepped in and did the difference no like that's not going to teach him anything the b was the difference
Matthew Poll:yeah, to your point. The c or the c plus was exactly what he needed, right, and I will tell you. Last week. So he had the c plus and he's like what do I do? Like, and he's great, like, he's pretty emotional about it. Thought he was gonna make it and I was like well, it's not over. We're in the final stretch, dude, it's the last quarter, so talk to your teacher. There's a couple minutes on the board. Yep, that's what I said. I said go talk to your teacher, see if there's something you can do. And he's like okay, okay, I was like well, let's role play this. And so we're, coincidentally enough, we're going on a hike to Donut Falls I don't know if you guys know where that is and it's all snowed in perfect environment.
Matthew Poll:We have like 45 minutes to the drive. And so I'm role playing this with my son and I have my other son in the front seat. He's listening to the whole thing, thing. He's trying to interject, tell anzo what to do, you know. And, uh, we probably role-played it, I would say at least 20 times, and I had to like break it out for him, like how to bring up the introduction, because, like this conversation thing is very way more difficult than it was for us. Like to to the point of, like what to say in the intro, how to take responsibility for what happened, like that was part of it, like, and this is on me. I kept telling him, like those are the key phrases, this is on me, this is on me, this is on me.
Matthew Poll:And then ask an opened into question, not a yes or no question. I mean, we were nailing this and I'm in, you know, I have a background sales, so I'm like really trying to set him up for success. And so we got him to the point where he was asking the teacher, like what would you have me do to get a C plus to a B Rather than? Is there anything I can do, right, I mean? So he nailed this thing, but at the end of the day, there was nothing he could do. Like he gave it his final shot but it was in the last quarter of the last inning and so, like the lesson now is not what do I do in the last quarter and the last inning, it's what could I have done differently, what will you do next quarter? That's different and I think that letting him have that victory of doing what it takes to actually get the result is going to be the biggest victory, and me not babysitting the path.
Matthew Poll:Oh it, me and his mom will go back and forth on this one like, well, we should make sure he's doing all of his assignments, we should make sure that he's doing this, doing this, you know, going through all the steps, and it's like no, we have the goal. Let's let him figure out the means. And if he does it by some crazy means, that's real. That's a real world. Sometimes we pull things off in a really unorthodox way, but let's let him figure that out. And so it's actually kind of easier, because now it's like set and I just let go of how the tyranny of how, as we talk about in organizations, it's the tyranny of how to raise my kids. It's actually really easy. The hard part is like watching it and not wanting to jump in and interject for my own selfish, self-esteem reasons, right, cause I don't want to see him fail. But if I do that, if I don't do this, what was failures look like when he's 20 or 30 or going through, you know, like really hard, hard decisions, big topics.
Kirk Chugg:And he probably won't remember not getting his phone for a semester and he probably won't remember the C plus, but he will remember the 20 role plays that you did with him in the car Like really, when you look back at it, like what's the bookmark going to be for him in this memory? He learned how to talk to an adult or someone in a superior position to him to get something that he felt like he needed. Yeah, Right.
Matthew Poll:And my younger son. He was just so excited because he knew all the answers that we had him do it at the end, also Cause he like heard it so many times.
Kirk Chugg:I can do this.
Matthew Poll:Let's see, and he's. He nailed it, you know, first time. That's great.
Kirk Chugg:Yeah, this has been a great conversation. It's been unique in that we've we've talked a little bit about this technology side, which I'm glad that we touched on. We might have to have you back on as AI continues to do our kids' homework for them, sure, and talk to us a little bit about how we can manage that as parents. At the end of every podcast, because we're running out of time here at the end of every podcast, we ask our guests to define what they think it means to be a gentleman. Would you do that for us, matt?
Matthew Poll:Yeah, I'm going to tie it in to something I identified about five years ago in terms of like a definition for who I am for the world.
Matthew Poll:I think it perfectly ties into this and so I'll say it that way first and then I'll redefine it for this question.
Matthew Poll:But I discovered about five years ago who I am for the world is that they get their responsible, and what I mean by that is that you can't be a victim sometimes, but that the vantage point, the observation point of always being responsible and seeing some way that you could have had an impact in a positive way could have made the difference. That's what I want the world to wake up to, and so I would say to be a gentleman would be very similar that your life, your family, your relationship, the way your kids turn out is actually your responsibility. And that in the hardest circumstances, where you think you don't have impact, you still might have a 1% or a 2% threat for the fathers who are deranged from children and, you know, don't get to see their kids all the time, you know don't have the benefits that I have co parenting. It's like you still have a thread of responsibility to make a positive impact and you can, and the fact that you can means that you probably should.
Kirk Chugg:Well said.
Cory Moore:Yeah, I mean that's good for parenting, being a gentleman in business, you name it Right Don't, don't be the victim and take responsibility. I'm, I'm with you. I think if you look at life that way, you're better off for it. And it doesn't mean everything's your fault, it just means that you could. You should always look in the mirror and say, well, what could I have done different? Even if it isn't a hundred percent my fault, it's good. What could I have done different? Even if it isn't 100% my fault, it's good. Matthew, we could do another hour with you easy. I think we only scratched the surface with you, so we might have to have him back. That'd be great. Thanks for your time today.
Kirk Chugg:Yeah, pleasure guys, and thank you for listening to the Gentlemen Project podcast. If you felt like you needed to share this with somebody today, as you listened to this, or took something away from this that you're going to implement in your life, we'd love to hear about it. Drop us a rating and review if you haven't done so. On apple podcast, that helps us reach more people. You give us a five-star rating and review. If you want to give us a one-star rating, we don't care if you do it or not.
Cory Moore:Where's the best place to find you, matthew? Is it linkedin? Is it somewhere else?
Matthew Poll:I've got a channel on YouTube Market Pulse Podcast. It's a podcast, but if you throw me in a Google search, it's Matthew Poll P-O-L-L.
Kirk Chugg:Perfect, awesome. Thank you, Matthew, and we will talk to you soon. Thanks for spending your time with us. I'm Kirk Chugg.
Cory Moore:I'm Cory Moore. Have a great day, thank you.
